Hey guys, Im having some probs. breaking-in a buddy's Trinity/picco P12 on his rc10gt.
Here's what were working with:
Picco P12 non ps, rotory carb 1 1/2-2 turns hsn, 3 - 3 1/2 Lsn.(Per manual)
O.S plugs #8 (brand new, I also tried duratrax silver plugs)
O'Donells 20% (it's not the gas, I ran my maxx w/ the same fuel)
Duratrax universal bump box (neither of us have ever used one before and the 12V drained pretty quick)
Glow starter (we used the driver that plugs into the mini panel via banana plugs)
Rc10Gt Team factory
Here's whats happening. I primed the carb and then bumped the engine, at first it sounded as if it was going to fire right up but it never turned over. I then checked the the ignitor, plug, fuel flow, hydra lock and every thing seemed o.k. I then raised the heat to the plug and tried again, no luck. I noticed a lot of gas coming out of the the pipe so I started adjusting the needles to reduce this, no luck. I then changed the plug waited a few minutes and tried again, again it sounded as if it was going start... but no. By now the gell cell is getting low(I thought they held a good charge), the engine is warm and i've gone thru a tank and a half trying to get it started. WTF? :confused:
(Strike that last remark, just venting) :o :o
I think it's a combination of the needle settings and starter box, but what do I know, Im writing this darn tread. So if there are any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it.
If the engine is warm and has never started you may have damaged it already. That heat is caused by friction.
When breaking in an engine always put a hair dryer on the head for 7-10 mins. to make sure the engine is kind of close to operating temperature BEFORE trying to start it.
I don't know if this is helpful but on my Picco .15 the HSN is supposed to be flush, I couldn't find anything that said how many turns out.
I just inspected the motor and everything was really lubed up. could be from all the gas that flowed thru this thing during the trial break-in. other than that everything looked ok. the sleeve is pretty tight too!
No easy answers I guess.
here are a few questions I have, maybe someone can help me out.
1. How much gas should be coming out of the exhaust when bump staring the engine?
2. Which needle do you adjust to +/- the gas exiting the exhaust ?
3. Which heat setting should I use (L,M,H) when Im trying to ignite the plug w/ the ignitor thats connected to the box?
I would think that your low speed needle may be out too much and its getting flooded with gas. I haven't tried a Pico, but I know with my O.S. and my Hyper .21 I don't have the needle out that much. All you really need to do is get gas into the carb and make sure ur ignitor is getting power, and a couple turns of the crank should start it up. I would check to make sure the glow plug ignitor is getting power. You can do this by putting a plug in the ignitor and it should glow orange. I would also double check the manual to make sure you have to correct needles in the correct places.
There should be some gas coming out of the exhaust, because you should have the settings rather rich for the break in process.
I would drop a couple drops of fuel in the motor(through the air filter opening) and see if it fires.
I think your starter box is dying because it's not charged enough. Mine takes like 12 hours+ to charge.
Well guys today I will give it another shot, The gell cell is fully charged @ 12v and Im ready to go!
Satoch, I would love to use that break-in method, but i can't get the engine to start!LOL!
BigJs, Just checked the ignitor and its good. I also quadruple checked the needle settings and there right where the manual suggests.
Tex, I know for sure gas was going thru this thing(maybe too much gas!!), it's just not firing up!! Hopefully dropping some fuel in the carb and a full charge of the starter box will get it going.
I don't know why I'm having all these problems, I've broken-in engines(6) before.
I'll keep you guy posted and thanks everyone for all your help.
Damn now I am scared I screwed up my engine after reading that link. I went to that devry bash spot to break it in. Nice little spot too, 5 minutes from my house.
Maxximum, I just broke in (attempted too) my engine this weekend and after five tanks I think I am having the same problem as you, it just wont start. Below is what I did for breakin, probably wrong but I am totally new to this hobby. Maybe somebody could read through what I did and tell me if I messed this whole process up. Thanks
The engine is a Dynamite .12 SPD Pull Start. I had some problems getting it started at first, but once I did get it started I let it Idle with the wheels off the ground for the first tank(Mistake mb). Then my son and I ran it on the ground for tanks 2-5 blipping the throttle between idle and half throttle for a whole tank. I fouled a plug and installed a new one. The head never got hotter than 200ยบ I think, but I dont know cause I dont have a temp gauge so I spit tested and the spit just kinda of bubble away but not sizzled. I know I was running rich plus I used Blue thunder breakin fuel. I few times I think I might have had Hydro lock and didn't realize it. I also had some fuel bubbling out of the glue plug hole(air leak?). I also never got the White blue smoke really. I did have some fuel spitting out the pipe. I got it started once on the sixth tank but she quit as soon as we got her on the ground and hit the throttle. After that it didnt start. I check the igniter and glow plug and the plug was heating up. I also noticed that the truck creeped less and less forward at idle with each tank. I did kill the engine when almost out of fuel and let it cool with the piston at BDC. I also noticed that my high speed needle felt spongy when I turned it, is that normal? The piston still is kinda of tight at TDC even after 5 tanks. When I couldnt get it started anymore I dumped the gas and put some after run oil in it. I am going to get some new plugs and try again this saturday or sunday.
maybe you blew a clutch spring and that's why it won't start. Do you use the throttle to help it start? Throttle on and off as you pull the pull starter
Also, you should be seeing smoke (blue), white (with no blue at all) means it's too lean. No smoke means it's excessively lean. Yeah HSN's feel spongy at times, all of them have a different feel to them. maybe your LSN is too lean?
I guess I should have mentioned what truck I have. Its an RC10GT(tub chassis).
I saw some smoke, just not alot. I am sure I ran it rich. I started with the manufacturers settings. When I wasnt sure if it was rich enough I backed it out counter-clockwise. I even killed it a few time messing with it, but I never leaned it. I just wasnt sure I was running rich enough cause i wasnt getting the smoke I thought I should. The LSN was set at the manufacturers recommend setting and I even richened that up. I did think maybe the clutch nut came loose, I'll check it tonight. Like I said before I had some fuel comig out around the glow plug I saw once, but I didnt check it again.
Make sure the glow plug is tight. You will only be able to see real smoke when you are on the throttle, it's hard to see any when at idle. You may be too rich and the motor is getting flooded.
So far all the places I have posted this say I havent broken the engine which is good. I gotta drive out to venture hobbies tonight to get a new steering servo mounting bracket(the screw pulled out), I'll pick up some glow plugs too.
Well guys here's the lastest . we managed to get it started and give it some throttle but it died out. We got it going again but only for a few seconds and by then the starter box was drained. :confused:
Do I need a 1/8th starter to get this thing cranking? How many starts can you guys get on a fully charged 12v cell? This Duratrax universal starter box may be crap!!
On my cheapy ofna universal box I had, I could start my buggy 50+ times.......at least.
It starts right up, one little bump and it's running!
I normally get 2-3 race weekends on a fully charged gell cell.
how many cranks is it taking to get the engine started? if you have it tuned correctly it should start on the first couple turns.
Well after reading a few post on other sites, it seems that the needle settings may have been printed backwards. A guy thats owns a few picco engines gave his settings @ 3 turns HS & 2 1/4 turns LS for a rich break-in. As oppose to the 1 1/2 HS & 3 1/2 LS settings that the manual recommends.
As far as the starter is concerned, as I hold the car down trying to get it going It spins the flywheel. The clutch is engaged thus turning the wheels, but its not on. The starter could be dieing quick cause its turning a tight engine thats not cranking on. So its probaly my needle settings, so I'll adjust that next.
sounds like you need to fix the clutch also. A nitro car won't idle if the clutch engauges on the starter box
Clutch? The clutch on this guy is plastic w/ no springs. No resistance. They kinda just hang there. Cheap!
maxximum_44 Wrote:Clutch? The clutch on this guy is plastic w/ no springs. No resistance. They kinda just hang there. Cheap!
Thats how my RC10GTs clutch is setup.
*UPDATE*UPDATE*UPDATE*UPDATE*UPDATE*UPDATE*UPDATE*UPDATE*UPDATE*UPDATE*
Well wadda ya know, needle settings were adjusted, engine was primed and the car fired right up. unfortunately it would'nt stay on! I made some adjustments and the car would start and then shut off. granted, this was the quickest and longest the car stayed on.
Here are some notes I made:
1. The starter box provided enough power to crank over the engine many times, it was'nt till
I pluged the glow starter in that the 12v wore down.(I used a spare glow starter untill it died)so I think that eliminates the box as being the problem.
2. At first the GT stayed on for a few seconds,when i put it on the ground I gave it some throttle and it died.
I was not able to give more throttle to keep it on would just die!
3. I needed to prime the engine almost every time to get it started and After making some adjustments I would prime,bump,and get it started it would go to full rpm by itself uncotrollably.This happended 4-5 times!
4. Fuel is flying thru this motor. Just keeping it started the engine went thru 5 tanks of unburned fuel(about 2- 3 minutes a tank). After each start attempt I would tip the GT on its side and fuel would just pour out of the tune pipe.
5. Gas in the pressure line.
6. On the last tank I was able keep the car started by putting my finger on & off the exhaust.
7. when I did see smoke It was accompanied by lots of gas
8. Prior to this last run, the low speed needle was inspected and the O-ring was blown. I wrapped the threads of the needle w/ pipe tape (I think its called Teflon tape) as a temporary solution.
Thats all I can think of for now.
On a lighter note :puke: I was able to test my Ofna p10 2wd conversion. I made it 2wd because I hade a broken a CVD and had no replacement. Its been 4 months and I wanted to see this puppy go. I was not sure how it would handle seeing that it is a 3 diff 4wd w/ a .21 turned 2 diff 2wd w/ a .21. I did by locking the center diff and removing the shaft that powers the frontend. Well boy did it go!! not alot of accelaration but tons of topend. It was a blast. I was whooping it around having a good go at it when I kinda felt bad for my buddy (and his gt that would'nt stay on) watching, and @ that moment my p10 sped gallantly across the huge lot... full throttle right past me !!!NOOOOOOOO!!!!! I couldn't look after I noticed I had lost control, but I knew the inevitable. I made my way over to the crash site and my baby was wegded between a concrete barrier and a steel beam. I did a quick once over and seen the carb stuck wide open, after further review I noticed that the crystal was missing :eek: The p10 is considered delicate, so I was suprised The damage was not as bad as I thought. 1 lower A -arm, 1 bearing and maybe a servo. :headbang:
This is my first radio lost/WOT mishape in 5yrs and Considering the concensus around here about failsafes, I should have installed a throttle return spring.
Shame on me!!
Im posted out, so untill next time.